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Author	Topic: What is terrorism?
Rui Rodrigues Member	posted August 18, 2006 07:08 PM Just by the title of this thread, I imagine a few eyebrows raised... But it's a honest question. I'm not endorsing pain, death, or saying that the ends justifie the means, in fact, I vehemently dislike violence. The question is more subtle than that. Israel is attacked. What they do? retaliate. Palestine is attacked. What they do? retaliate. Israel uses expensive tanks and men in uniform. Palestinians use cheap bombs and teenagers. If you think about it, these are just different way's of fighting. What do you think that the French resistance was to the ocupying Germany? Terrorists. If Germany won the war they would be terrorists, since the aliance won, they are heroes. Remember: It's the winners that write the history books. I have no doubt that if my country or yours were invaded we would do every act considered terrorist to defend it. As I said before, I think Europe (excluding UK) has a balanced opinion on the actual geopolitical scene. USA don't. Guantanamo is a shame, the death pennalty is a shame, the way the USA thinks it can invade anyone who doesn't follow their political agenda is shamefull. So expect more acts of "terrorism". They will end when USA/UK stop meddling with Islamic countries. What USA needs is to know what they want, what are they fighting for, what kind of compromise can be reached by the parts envolved. One last note: Too many US army men lost their lives on Iraq. To many civilian too. Is it worth it? ------------------ RR xx_pb@clix.pt replace the xx's with my initials IP: Logged
Joe Byrne Member	posted August 18, 2006 07:45 PM First of all, anyone who can't clearly define what Terrorism really is has a lot of learning to do. quote: What do you think that the French resistance was to the ocupying Germany? Terrorists. Did any of the French resistance walk into public places filled with civilians and blow themselves up? quote: If Germany won the war they would be terrorists, since the aliance won, they are heroes. Did the Germans train 4 teenagers how to pack their backpacks full of explosives, board 4 trains filled with civilian commuters and detonate the bombs? quote: I have no doubt that if my country or yours were invaded we would do every act considered terrorist to defend it. Ah, hello? Read any newspapers the last 4-5 years? the USA was invaded. They came here then proceeded to hijack commercial (read: civilian) airplanes and fly 3 of them into buildings killing more American civilians at one time than any other incident on record. But I suppose we're supposed to "turn the other cheek" though, right? Write off all those lost American lives as collateral damage or some such thing....I guess its our fault, right? Get real and get a clue. ------------------ * Americans: Fight for Right. Join the push for the Fair Tax! IP: Logged
Mark Hunter Member	posted August 18, 2006 08:07 PM Joe, Read about the Dresden and Hamburg "fire bombings," then tell us about terrorism. ------------------ ARI Watch [This message has been edited by Mark Hunter (edited August 18, 2006).] IP: Logged
Rui Rodrigues Member	posted August 18, 2006 08:15 PM Did any of the French resistance walk into public places filled with civilians and blow themselves up? They might. Wouldn't you blow up for your country? No? Well Joe, You are smarter than I thought. Did the Germans train 4 teenagers how to pack their backpacks full of explosives, board 4 trains filled with civilian commuters and detonate the bombs? No, they killed Juish people MASSIVELY. Which is worst? You tell me. Ah, hello? Read any newspapers the last 4-5 years? the USA was invaded. Ah, Joe... Only you could make me laugh... Invaded? Did those bad men scratched your house? No? Oh! you still have your house in one piece! Getting problems with food, potable water, medic attention? No? Perhaps you should compare notes with people whose country was REALLY invaded. ...fly 3 of them into buildings killing more American civilians at one time than any other incident on record. Americans? You think they just killed Americans? Write off all those lost American lives as collateral damage or some such thing.... Do you want to talk about collateral damage? Vietnam? Afghanistan? Iraq? I guess its our fault, right? Well, YES it is. Get real and get a clue. I think you need more that advice than myself. Try to take your feet off USA and go see the world. In fact, this should be compulsory for all people in US government. While you are at it, try to learn another language, it makes wonders on one's perpective. With love, Rui ------------------ RR xx_pb@clix.pt replace the xx's with my initials [This message has been edited by Rui Rodrigues (edited August 18, 2006).] IP: Logged
David Roberts Member	posted August 18, 2006 08:44 PM > What do you think that the French resistance was to the ocupying Germany? French resistance. > what are they fighting for ..... liberty As you enter New York harbour there is a statue, it is called The Statue of Liberty. Now there is a bleeding coincidence! > If Germany won the war they would be terrorists, since the aliance won, they are heroes. You are playing with words, Rui, and, if I may say so, are not doing a very good job at it. > So expect more acts of "terrorism". They will end when USA/UK stop meddling with Islamic countries. I may be wrong but I bet you think that Lebanon is Islamic. In fact, only 59.7% are Muslim and 39% are Christian [The World Factbook] and neither is regarded as dominating. In fact, some of the top positions are held by Maranite Catholics who take up 16 points of the 39% Christian. > One last note: Too many US army men lost their lives on Iraq. To many civilian too. > Is it worth it? If we are not prepared to die for liberty then what are we prepared to die for? IP: Logged
Kev Diggins Member	posted August 18, 2006 08:44 PM quote: Originally posted by Rui Rodrigues: Remember: It's the winners that write the history books. I know many native American Indians would agree with that statement. [This message has been edited by Kev Diggins (edited August 18, 2006).] IP: Logged
Rui Rodrigues Member	posted August 18, 2006 09:35 PM > What do you think that the French resistance was to the ocupying Germany? French resistance. Yes, the term terrorist is newer that WW2 what are they fighting for ..... liberty Well, they just wanted the Germans out, but yes French fight for liberty. Vive la France! But as you might recall, Bush wasn't too happy with them some time ago. There was even a movement to call freedom fries to the french fries. Talk about hillbilies. > If Germany won the war they would be terrorists, since the aliance won, they are heroes. You are playing with words, Rui, and, if I may say so, are not doing a very good job at it. Well, I'll try to explain real slow. If you are good or bad depends from the perspective of the person judging. > So expect more acts of "terrorism". They will end when USA/UK stop meddling with Islamic countries. I may be wrong but I bet you think that Lebanon is Islamic. In fact, only 59.7% are Muslim and 39% are Christian [The World Factbook] and neither is regarded as dominating. In fact, some of the top positions are held by Maranite Catholics who take up 16 points of the 39% Christian. ?? you are the first person to talk about Lebanon on this thread. If we are not prepared to die for liberty then what are we prepared to die for? "Liberty is generally thought of in English as a condition in which an individual has immunity from the arbitrary exercise of authority; it often also implies the right to exercise political rights such as standing for office. It is often equated with freedom (as by Quentin Skinner (1998) Liberty before Liberalism, citing Hobbes's Leviathan), although some have argued a distinction (eg David Hackett Fischer (2005) Liberty and Freedom: a visual history of America's founding ideas)." If you think USA is a country with Liberty, I advise you to think better. Of course I'm not comparing it with Iran, China, or North-Corea it's far above it. On the other hand, it's far bellow France, Sweden, etc. Personally, I'm not prepared to die for any country, religion, idea, etc. ------------------ RR xx_pb@clix.pt replace the xx's with my initials [This message has been edited by Rui Rodrigues (edited August 18, 2006).] IP: Logged
David Roberts Member	posted August 18, 2006 10:10 PM > Bush wasn't too happy with them some time ago. I cannot recall ever being happy with them. > If you are good or bad depends from the perspective of the person judging. Quite so, that was what I was doing. > ?? you are the first person to talk about Lebanon on this thread. You didn't qualify 'Islamic countries' which is why I started with "I may be wrong ...". Was I wrong, by the way? > "Liberty ....... ideas)." is a quote from? > If you think USA is a country with Liberty, I advise you to think better. I am trying but I am struggling - perhaps some American forum members can help me out here. > Of course I'm not comparing it with Iran, China, or North-Corea it's far above it. Far! Infinity more like. > On the other hand, it's far bellow France, Sweden, etc. I wouldn't be prepared to make such distinctions. > Personally, I'm not prepared to die for any country, religion, idea, etc. In other words, by virtue of etc, you are not prepared to die for anything. Well, it takes all kinds. [This message has been edited by David Roberts (edited August 18, 2006).] IP: Logged
Rui Rodrigues Member	posted August 18, 2006 10:20 PM Was I wrong, by the way? No, you were not. "Liberty ....... ideas)." is a quote from? encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/liberty In other words, by virtue of etc, you are not prepared to die for anything. Right ------------------ RR xx_pb@clix.pt replace the xx's with my initials [This message has been edited by Rui Rodrigues (edited August 18, 2006).] IP: Logged
Joe Byrne Member	posted August 18, 2006 10:54 PM quote: {speaking of the USA} ... On the other hand, it's far bellow France, Sweden, etc. Personally, I'm not prepared to die for any country, religion, idea, etc. I have never heard such drivel in all my born days. This is sad, plain and simple. I have nothing more to add to this discussion. Clearly the mindset of some is so far gone it would be impossible to discuss such topics as right and wrong, freedom and liberty, justice and peace. You need at least a tiny bit of common ground to have intelligent conversations of these matters and each side will look at the other in disbelief and wonder. I've no time for things of that nature. ------------------ * Americans: Fight for Right. Join the push for the Fair Tax! IP: Logged
Mark Hunter Member	posted August 18, 2006 11:04 PM Rui Rodrigues wrote quote: If you think USA is a country with Liberty, I advise you to think better. ... it�s far bellow France, Sweden, etc. Not true, not true at all. Bad as it is and getting worse, the US is still more free than those countries, as they get more worse. quote: ... I�m not prepared to die for any country, religion, idea, etc. One should be prepared to die defending one�s own life and the lives of those one loves. *THAT�S IT.* Don�t hand me nonsense about the virtue of �dying for freedom in Iraq.� ------------------ ARI Watch [This message has been edited by Mark Hunter (edited August 18, 2006).] IP: Logged
Joe Byrne Member	posted August 18, 2006 11:58 PM quote: One should be prepared to die defending one�s own life and the lives of those one loves. THAT�S IT. Of course this totally discounts all of the men and women who, over the past 207 years, died for your right to express your beliefs freely without fear of being drug out of bed at 3:00am and have your skin peeled from your body. But heck, nobody asked them to die for your freedom right? So I guess they were all just fools. I'm willing to bet that President Bush had something to do with it! I'll bet he duped General Washington into doing that attack on Christmas morning, and surely its wasn't the Japanese to attacked Perl Harbor, it was that sneaky George Bush who master minded the whole thing and made it look like the Japanese. He did all of this so he could send thousands of men and boys to fight over oil-rich land! Yea, that's it. BUSH LIED, BUSH LIED, BUSH LIED..... (more sarcasm for those who miss it and don't understand reality very well) ------------------ * Americans: Fight for Right. Join the push for the Fair Tax! IP: Logged
Mark Hunter Member	posted August 19, 2006 01:03 AM I understand some of the Indian tribes did the skinned alive bit. Anyway, the New Hampshire Patriots said it best: �Live free or die!� They were referring to themselves � their own selves and their wives and children. And good for them. Bush hates us for what freedom we have left. If the Patriots were referring to Joe, clearly they made a mistake. ------------------ ARI Watch IP: Logged
Knuth Konrad Member	posted August 19, 2006 07:50 AM To answer the question in the topic's title. I guess the first sentence from the wikipedia article sums it up quite good: quote: Terrorism is the systematic use or threatened use of violence to intimidate a population or government and thereby effect political, religious, or ideological change. Another explanation might be "Terrorism is the poor man's war." Knuth ------------------ http://www.softAware.de IP: Logged
Rui Rodrigues Member	posted August 19, 2006 09:49 AM Mark Hunter wrote One should be prepared to die defending one�s own life and the lives of those one loves. THAT�S IT. I agree with you Mark Joe Byrne wrote I have never heard such drivel in all my born days. This is sad, plain and simple. I have nothing more to add to this discussion. This is so tipical of you. Every time things look bad for your side of a discussion, you duck. Why don't you refute the answers I gave you? One last thing; If you are so fast giving up life, perhaps you don't cherish it enough. Knuth Konrad wrote Another explanation might be "Terrorism is the poor man's war." I couldn't agree more with you. ------------------ RR xx_pb@clix.pt replace the xx's with my initials IP: Logged

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