posted January 06, 2007 11:14 AM            

While it wouldn't surprise me that there are many parts of core LOB applications that use Java to provide some "glue" to web interfaces, that's a far stretch from being "written in Java on the server side".

posted January 06, 2007 12:30 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike Stefanik:
I don't know that eBay alone would be considered a "huge percentage" in terms of LOB applications.

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Bye!

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posted January 06, 2007 02:05 PM            

(Those developers are available for interviews, but you'll have to wait for the last batch of fries to finish so they can take care of that customer in the drive-up lane).

posted January 06, 2007 02:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Joe Byrne:
Really? I'd love to see some statistics for that.

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OK, here you go: http://download.microsoft.com/download/d/f/8/df86b04d-27ae-4456-aba7-70e1da5447 82/Forrester.pdf

Hosted by our good friends at M$. I keep forgetting that most of you
are not working for large corporations.

quote:

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· IT shops dabble in numerous development and integration environments. On average,
enterprises have 20 Web services in production or under development. At the same time, they
continue to increase their spending on EAI. In 2003, 41% had EAI implementations completed
or underway.3 This year, 51% plan to extend their deployments of integration server software. For
custom development and integration, buyers are split between Java and .NET. Fifty-six percent
consider .NET as their primary development environment compared with 44% for J2EE, although
preferences vary significantly by sector.

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44% of large corporations use J2EE as their primary development
environment. There are many companies (including my own huge one)
that use both J2EE and .NET (and ancient, legacy COBOL, SAS, etc on mainframes).

FWIW, my company is in the segment that uses J2EE for 65% of development
work. We have thousands of web services (not just 20), and have processed
over three billion SOA transactions to date. Yet PowerBASIC still fits
in nicely for a certain class of projects, primarily rapid prototypes.

A more recent survey by Evans Data shows Java to be the overall leading
development language:
http://java.sys-con.com/read/307112.htm

quote:

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The use of Visual Basic, one of the most popular computer languages throughout the last fifteen years, is eroding dramatically according to Evans Data’s Fall 2006 North American Development Survey. Overall, developer use of the Visual Basic family has dropped off by 35% since last spring. As expected, developers are finally leaving VB6 and earlier versions, they’re also leaving VB.NET; which is down by 26%. This means Java now holds the market penetration lead at 45% (with developers using Java during some portion of their time), followed by C/C++ at 40%, and C# at 32%.

“Microsoft has dominated languages since the early 90’s but we are seeing much more parity now,” said John Andrews, President, Evans Data. “The use of scripting languages, as well as Java, appear to have limited VB’s future market potential.”

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--pdf

posted January 06, 2007 06:38 PM            

quote:

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I keep forgetting that most of you are not working for large corporations.

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I'm really confused though, how we got from a question regarding the viability of DRDOS to a Forrester research paper based heavily on businesses with 5,000 or more employees.

posted January 06, 2007 07:55 PM            

quote:

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I'm really confused though, how we got from a question regarding the viability of DRDOS to a Forrester research paper based heavily on businesses with 5,000 or more employees.

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posted January 06, 2007 08:49 PM            

quote:

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DRDOS is tempting, but looking at their website there appears to have been no activity since 2004. Should I worry?

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quote:

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I wouldn't probably worry about DRDOS too much, after all, how much more can you add to an already antiquated OS?

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So calling DOS old, and inferior, "suggests that using DOS is bad regardless of the application field" ????

I really don't think you can say the original question "triggered" anything in my replies.

posted January 06, 2007 09:08 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Joe Byrne:

Walk into any store, even the Walmarts, Sears, or B&N book stores and you're far more likely to find Windows based applications running their business software.

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You don't change out a working POS system just because it's not using
the latest technology. Many retail chains have made the move to thin
client systems that run off in-store servers, but others (I believe
Macy's is one) are still using their old IBM terminals running DOS.

Speaking of Wal-Mart, here's a good article on the migration of their
mostly-java web site to Java 1.5:
http://www.theserverside.com/tt/articles/article.tss?l=MigratingtoJava5

quote:

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{B]
I really don't think anyone can create something like, for example, Quickbooks (or any other popular accounting package), and run the unmodified source code through a single compiler and get the resulting apps to run on Windows and Linux.
[/B]

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Large enterprises don't run on QuickBooks. They use enterprise applications
like SAP and the Oracle business suites that do, indeed, run on Windows or Unix
systems. Large corporations still don't think much of Windows for server use.

Most enterprise software is shifting or has shifted to the browser
for the UI. All of our internal enterprise apps that I use have browser UI's.
The only Windows apps are the M$ Office suite. The old green-screen 3270 UI's
have all been replaced with shiny new browser UI's.

posted January 06, 2007 09:22 PM            

quote:

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So calling DOS old, and inferior, "suggests that using DOS is bad regardless of the application field" ????

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Reading your first replies I had and still have that impression, but if you didn't suggest that using DOS is bad regardless of the application field, I just misunderstood you.

posted January 06, 2007 10:44 PM            

I only used Quickbooks as an example, but as an example, it holds up very well to make my point about cross platform compilers.

quote:

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Most enterprise software is shifting or has shifted to the browser for the UI. All of our internal enterprise apps that I use have browser UI's.

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I work with a few dozen companies in Minneapolis and St. Paul (and surrounding areas) all of which are considered "international" companies and all but 2 use the traditional PC server infrastructure with smart client software.

So its all a matter of location I guess, but I'd be real hesitant to use phrases like "most" unless I actually had experience with truly "most" businesses.

posted January 07, 2007 04:59 AM            

quote:

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Most enterprise software is shifting or has shifted to the browser
for the UI.

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Just coming back to Chris's original theme: ie the burden imposed
by interfacing MS Windows, and getting locked in or rather
"becoming part of M$ gut flora".

Perhaps this is the future for nearly all UIs, desktop apps
included. We could then forget about all the platform-specific
details, and then focus on the back end the program. But to date
there are a few missing elements in the standard browser: Vector
and 3D graphics, and an easy way to SUBMIT data back to a desktop
application, to mention a few.

posted January 07, 2007 01:05 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Charles Pegge:
But to date there are a few missing elements in the standard browser:
Vector and 3D graphics, and an easy way to SUBMIT data back to a desktop
application, to mention a few.

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Presumably Vector & 3D graphics are not at the top of the average enterprise system designer's list.

What did you mean by "an easy way to SUBMIT data back to a desktop
application"?

posted January 07, 2007 03:22 PM            

Embed an HTML control in your own window using plain C http://www.codeproject.com/com/cwebpage.asp

If there is nothing easier around I am prepared to hold my nose and
give it a go.

posted January 07, 2007 07:29 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Charles Pegge:
If there is nothing easier around I am prepared to hold my nose and
give it a go.

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No need, Jose Roca did it for you a while ago, brilliantly:
http://www.powerbasic.com/support/forums/Forum7/HTML/002621.html

In HTMLDocumentEvents2_onclick(), you can intercept the "submit"
button click, then read any values you need (assuming you have put
an "id" on all your HTML form elements) with HTMLDocument_GetElementValueById()

Another option build one of the basic web servers on the forums into your
app, point the submit button to "localhost" on an unused port like 8080,
and use CGI techniques to get the form data.