posted December 01, 2001 09:16 AM            

When this has happened, I've checked my memory status icon in the
tray (a program which I wrote), and the MINIMUM it says that I
had free (available RAM) was 130MB. I have used this same program
since I wrote it about 6 months ago, and don't believe that it
is all-of-a-suddenly returning erroneous data. Therefore, I
believe the error message is generated by my being out of
available Resources, not actual memory (RAM).

My OS is Win98SE, and I have NEVER had a problem of this nature
before.

The only changes I can coherently recall that were made three
days ago are: (1) I installed the newest video card drivers
for my video adaptor, which is an ATI Xpert 128 Rage 128. I got
the drivers setup EXE directly from the ATI homesite. (2) I
modified three of my system tray programs, which I always have running,
so that they use custom checked/unchecked BMP's for their
menu item checked states, then use SetMenuItemBitmaps with
those bitmaps, upon apporpriate menu selections.

So, about 8 hours ago, I uninstalled the new video drivers, and
reinstalled the old ones. The problem still occurred approximately
five hours later. However, it IS possible that the newest drivers'
UNINSTALL didn't do a clean uninstall, and some its software is still
in use by my Windows. I don't know any way to remedy this, other
than reFORMATting an reinstalling everything.

So, my actual question: can the custom checked/unchecked bitmaps
be constantly renewed by my programs, even though I have NOT been
making the menu selections that would actually change them? If this
is true, then that would most likely explain my problem, as the
constantly newly created hDC's would eventually make my resources
drop to a severely low limit. As it is now, the only places that
those programs destroy the bitmaps are in WM_CLOSE and in the
normal program termination WM_COMMAND processor.

If the answer to the question is in the affirmative, where in my
program would I need to destroy the bitmaps? In which MENU
command processor are they recreated by the program?

The three programs use hidden, MODELESS dialogs which exist
solely for the purpose of having a callback function to process
the MENU commands. The hChecked and hUnchecked custom bitmaps are
loaded either in WINMAIN, or in WM_INITDIALOG, depending on the
program - those are the ONLY places that they are loaded, so I
can't see how any of the programs could be reloading them.

I have gone back to using %NULL for the bitmap handles used by
SetMenuItemBitmaps. Will test that for the next 5-6 hours, to
see if the Windows aberration crops back up. I ran them that way
for a couple of months, with NO Windows errors, until 3 days ago.

While waiting for the results, any answers to this posting would
be MOST welcome.

Thanks in advance!

------------------
Clay C. Clear

posted December 01, 2001 09:20 AM            

O/S does not return deallocated memory to system pool correctly. When total system allocations during "up time" reach 2Gb, you are 'out of memory.'

Fix? Re-boot.

(Or go to NT or Win/2000, which do not have this problem).

MCM

posted December 01, 2001 09:44 AM            

Thanks for your prompt reply. However, I don't understand fully
how your answer would apply to my situation? As I stated in my
original posting, this problem had NEVER occurred before, until
starting 3 days ago. Did you mean that it applies because of the
two changes that I said I made 3 days ago? If so, how would I
correct it (other than my current attempt, which is to use %NULL
for the MENU's bitmaps when running SetMenuItemBitmaps)? Rebooting
every 5 hours I do NOT consider a viable option. Until now, my
Win98SE has been a VERY stable platform, with usually 5-7 days
between reboots, unless I run an app that actually eats up the
RAM, without having Windows release it.

Can you, or anybody else, give me a more detailed answer as to
WHAT can specifically be causing this error? I'm 99% sure that
it has something to do with the changes I made 3 days ago, otherwise
the problem would've cropped up a LONG time ago.

Thanks!

Regards,

------------------
Clay C. Clear

posted December 01, 2001 11:20 AM            

But, this leads to another question - if my Windows error is being
generated by low resources, WHY does it occur when using the custom
bitmaps, and NOT when using the DEFAULT Windows check state bitmaps?

The same program that refreshes its menu item every ten seconds used the
DEFAULT bitmaps until 3 days ago, and prior to that, I wasn't getting
that Windows error and I've been running the program continuously
as long as Windows has been up for the past 4 months.

Thanks in advance!

------------------
Clay C. Clear

posted December 01, 2001 11:26 AM            

Are your custom bitmaps DIB's or DDB's?-----B

posted December 01, 2001 11:45 AM            

------------------
Clay C. Clear

Clay Clear's Software (Frames Only)
clayclear@home.com

posted December 01, 2001 12:19 PM            

I have a program which has the problem: I only need 2 or 3 Mb of memory at any one time, but I need it fairly often. What I did was this (and I think I posted this before, but darned if I can remember where):

At the start of the program, I create private heap with a size of 20Mb (your size is, of course, whatever you need).

Whenever my program needs to allocate these chunks of memory, I use HeapAlloc/HeapFree from that private heap.

It seems that while CreateHeap counts against your "total" of 2.1Gb, HeapAlloc/HeapFree do not; that is, memory allocated from a private heap is returned to the heap pool correctly, and it only costs you the value of the HeapCreate memory in terms of system usage.

Note that the PowerBASIC DIM/REDIM (array) are allocations, too; if you need to create lots of local arrays, your best bet is to allocate as above, then use DIM AT... the pointer returned by HeapAlloc. (This is actually how I came upon this Win 9x problem and solution).

MCM

posted December 01, 2001 01:02 PM            

So am now convinced that my problem has been caused by shoddily
written video drivers. I think this because the problem started
in the same timeframe as when I installed the new drivers.
It is POSSIBLE, 'though unlikely, that the problem was caused
by other mods I made to some programs, mods that I can't recall
making, at this time.

Am going to reformat my HD and reinstall everything. I don't know
of any other means to "fix" the drivers problem. I had already
used Control Panel | Add/Remove Programs to remove the new
drivers, then reinstalled the old drivers. Apparently, either
the new drivers' UNINSTALL didn't do a clean & complete uninstall,
or there were some core components that it COULDN'T uninstall,
which my Windows is still using, and which still make the current
setup incompatible with the rest of my platform.

At any rate, MANY thanks to the people who replied to my original
posting. You may consider this topic "closed." If my problem
persists after the reinstallation, then I'll post a new topic,
asking for DETAILED troubleshooting help. I've got nowhere
else to turn, as the computer dealer where I bought my computer
has shut down, and there aren't any others in the local area that
I can turn to for help (I live in a VERY sparsely populated area )

Michael,

While the message you posted about the Heap functions may not be
germaine to my specific problem, after all, it was still VERY
informative and instructive, and I fully intend to use its info
when I start writing regular apps, instead of the "parlor trick"
programs that I've coded thus far. So, thanks.

------------------
Clay C. Clear

posted December 01, 2001 02:49 PM            

ie, if GDI resources are dropping, chances are it is your app(s) that are the problem.

posted December 01, 2001 03:48 PM            

Thanks for your reply. It never even occurred to me to use the
Resource Meter to verify whether it's my GDI resources that are
being impacted. I guess I'm pretty braindead after messing with
the problem for the past (over) 48 hours.

I have gotten far enough in my HD reinstallation to set the Meter
to run at startup (i.e., my PB folders, including the tray programs
that run at Windows boot, are fully reinstalled). So, I'll finish
installing the vital hardware drivers, then reboot with the Meter,
and cease all reinstallation efforts until 5-6 hours, minimum have
passed. The recurring error ALWAYS occurred within 6 hours, max,
of each boot. It might not take that long, IF the Meter shows
definite changes before then.

It's also occurred to me that I might have a DIMM that's slowly
malfunctioning, such as a latent overheating problem.
Unfortunately, the thought didn't occur to me until after I had
already reformatted my C: partition.

At any rate, I'll be back in a few hours to post any observations
I make while running the Resource Meter, unless there are
dramatic changes before then.

Thanks again!

------------------
Clay C. Clear

posted December 01, 2001 04:58 PM            

System: 90% User: 90% GDI: 99%

If my programs were causing GDI resources drops, wouldn't it seem
like it'd be reflected within those initial 30-40 mins., considering
that the programs are running continuously in the tray?

Thanks!

Regards,

------------------
Clay C. Clear

posted December 01, 2001 05:10 PM            

Anyway, this is just an idea to see if resources are a problem. It could just be a flaky install, and it could be some other app or service you have running.

In my experience, low memory conditions are rarely caused by Video drivers unless they are one of those recent "shared-memory" models - those work by using main DRAM as part of the video memory instead of relying on their own memory, and are hence cheaper/nastier than a "proper" card.

I've also seen everything from IE to Windows itself consume a whole heap of memory for no "obvious" reason.

That is, I think you need to move to a 2-pronged attack:

1. Continue with the resource monitor under "typical" conditions
   
2. Duplicate the app and resource meter test on another PC
   

After all, in the past 3 days, there have been a tremenous amount of Viruses sent around and you have no alluded to whether you have AV running... one of the symptoms of the BADTRANS virus is O/S instability.

And to be honest, the number of forum users that have emailed me viruses in the past few days is staggering. Some of you will have received my "note" by now and you will know who you are...

posted December 01, 2001 05:56 PM            

Thanks for replying promptly. I won't bug you or anybody else
anymore about this tonight. Rather, I am going to bed, as am in
desperate need of sleep. I will let the 'puter purr all night,
and see if the problem is there when I get back up. This SHOULD
be indicative, as the first time I discovered the Windows error
was also right after I had just gotten out of bed, after the computer
had been running without intervention for appr. 10 hours. The only
foreground app (display-wise) that was running was the screen saver.

The thought of a virus attack had occurred to me also, but I had
pretty much discarded that thought,a s the only e-mail I've downloaded to my
local machine in the past week-and-a-half was PowerBASIC's plug
for PowerTree ( got *2* of 'em in the same week!), and 3 from my
cable modem provider. The interesting thing about THOSE e-mail's was that I only
have 2 e-mail accounts with the provider; so, i have no idea why
I got the third e-mail - all 3 e-mail's were exact duplicates of each other,

One thing that I found out since posting my last message to you, which I
find to be interesting, is that I went back to ATI's website, and
reread their download page for the newest drivers for Win98. THIS
time, I mad enote of the fact that, to paraphrase, the page says:

"...for best multimedia applications and games functioning..." <- is a complete rephrase, but the general idea is there
"the following are REQUIRED to be installed FIRST before installing this new driver..."
"...Microsoft DirectX8.0a"
"...Updated <something-or-other>"

Well, when I installed the updated video drivers 3 days ago, I was running
DirectX 8.1. So, maybe the updated drivers aren't compatible with
DirectX versions higher than 8.0a? That would seem unlikely, as their
updated drivers that I downloaded appr. 1-1/2 years ago, which required
DirecteX 7.0 or higher, have successfully also worked on higher
versions of DirectX. However, of note is that the newest drivers
mention a specific version of DirectX, whereas the older drivers
said "...or higher..."...so, maybe *I* busted my OS by mixing
incompatible softwares...I realize that you said that you didn't know
of "real" video cards' drivers causing the memory errors that I were
getting, BUT, at the time, I hadn't told you of these new findings...

At any rate, I apologize for this windy posting...will cut it off at
this point...hopefully, my reformatting/reinstalling of my HD has
fixed the problem...

Thanks again for your valuable assistance!

------------------
Clay C. Clear

posted December 01, 2001 10:27 PM            

If the problem persists after reinstalling your OS, you might try running msconfig to remove all programs running in the background, and then add them back in, a few at a time, until the offending one can be isolated. Just a thought.

And if you suspect the ATI video drivers, maybe you could change the drivers to 'Standard VGA' supplied with Windows. Of course you will have only 640 x 480 resolution and 16 colors, but this would at least test if the problem is caused by the ATI drivers. Just another thought.