Well, looks like I just quit smoking.

[Russ Srole]

No evidence? There is in the reality based world:

http://www.epa.gov/smokefree/healthe...%20the%20Risks

[Joe Byrne]

Originally Posted by Russ Srole

No evidence? There is in the reality based world:

http://www.epa.gov/smokefree/healthe...%20the%20Risks

Yup, the same reports that the anti-freedom folks have been using for some time now. The problem is, though, that just like most of the GW "facts", much of the EPA reports have been proved falsified, misleading, and overtly conjecture.

The report you're not likely to see from the EPA is the one that looked at 1500 some adults who grew up in homes where one or both parents smoked inside daily. Try as hard as they could, the results showed that there was no significant health differences between them and 1500 others who grew up in non-smoking homes. The report was published for a whopping 3 days before the government forced the university to remove it. All traces are now all but gone.

In my generation, it wasn't uncommon to find households that were constantly filled with smoke. I know at least a dozen people who grew up that way and now, in their early 50s, are as healthy or healthier than most folks. Generally speaking, they never started smoking because they weren't all that happy about the smell they grew up with.


But heck, why bother with facts when research paid by like-minded individuals just happens to support your point of view?

[Russ Srole]

No backing for any of your claims, but I didn't expect anything else. But I have an idea; you're in tight with the home schooling crowd and I expect a lot of them think along the same lines as you. Get a control group together, no smoking in the house, and a test group, keep the smoke a coming while the kids are in "class". We'll wait 20 years or so and see how things go. We'll look for signs of emphysema, damage the lining of blood vessels, decrease in coronary flow velocity reserves, reduced heart rate variability, and everyones favorite, increased risk of heart attack. Of course you have to convince people to use their children as guinea pigs. What do you think?

[Michael Mattias]

Ever since computers became widely available and inexpensive, people have been taking numbers, rearranging, sorting and ordering them to "prove" the existence of a cause-and-effect relationship - which (surprise!) "proves" some political point.

In fact, the numbers are just the numbers.

MCM

[Joe Byrne]

Originally Posted by Russ Srole

No backing for any of your claims, but I didn't expect anything else. But I have an idea; you're in tight with the home schooling crowd and I expect a lot of them think along the same lines as you. Get a control group together, no smoking in the house, and a test group, keep the smoke a coming while the kids are in "class". We'll wait 20 years or so and see how things go. We'll look for signs of emphysema, damage the lining of blood vessels, decrease in coronary flow velocity reserves, reduced heart rate variability, and everyones favorite, increased risk of heart attack. Of course you have to convince people to use their children as guinea pigs. What do you think?

That was exactly what the study I referred to did (long since removed by the government because it doesn't 'fit' with their belief system).

Look, you believe what you want. Nothing I, nor anyone else, could say would change your mind. I just hate it when people take a emotional issue and try to change it to a factual one is all.

[Russ Srole]

Hey, don't get me wrong. If you want to smoke or expose your family to some pretty awful stuff, it's ok with me. http://www.quit-smoking-stop.com/har...igarettes.html

You might think these chemicals are harmless, but your study is nowhere to be found. So I'll stick to current understanding of biology and chemistry.

[Bryan Flick]

Congrats on your decision to quit smoking Mel. I quit New Year's Eve, and have 80 or so days under my belt. It feels great (though some days are better than others), and I'm saving money. Do everything you always do. Just don't smoke while you do it.

Thanks,
Flick

[kerry Farmer]

There is no real question that smoking is good for the Government and good for the nation.

Firstly it is a great way of collecting taxes.

Secondly it acts as an "opiate" for the people making them easier to govern

And mostly it is a working class issue and people who smoke stay alive just long enough to work 40 years and then they die in their 60's so they do not live a long post working life costing superannuation and all those health issues of the 70's and 80's.

There have been studies in New Zealand which set out to show if people stopped smoking, the nation would be better off. But they showed that this was not true.

[John Strasser]

Congrats for going for it Mel!

For the record, in my personal experience as a hypnotherapist. . .

Clients that wan to stop for their own reasons = 95% success
Clients that want to stop b/c their D./Wife/etc tells them to = 40%

With any addiction there are 2 pieces: psych and physical.

To the extent there is a physical addiction (depend upon body chem, genes, etc) the patch is useful.

For the psych component, look for patterns with time and events (after meals, 3pm). At those times you may want to add in a substitute (straws cut the length of a cig, carrot sticks, celery stalks)

Another clue for psych over phys - did you *have* to actually finish smoking? Or could you take a couple of puffs and then put it out. If the former it may be more physical, if the latter, psych dominates.

Also, drink lots of water (your body is detoxing and needs the support). And, if you take an otc multi-vitamin and mineral supplement, double the dose for about a week (check with your Dr first - especially if taking any other meds - should be OK otherwise). Or eat extra fruit & veggies. The key is that you're placing your body under stress so be kind to yourself.

__________________
John, Hypnotherapist Extraordinaire, NLP Trainer
---------------------------------------------------
John Strasser
Phone: 480 - 344 - 7713

[Walt Thompson]

Originally Posted by Michael Mattias

Here in Wisconsin, with all the state taxes it's over seven bucks per pack.

Governor Doyle wants to raise the tax another eighty cents.

Why?

Because after the last tax increase (one dollar), revenues from this tax did not go up because for some strange reason sales went down.

It's really great to have this kind of brilliance at the helm. Jim Doyle makes his predecessor Scott McCallum (an apparachik party hack the likes of which had not been seen since the USSR passed away) look like a Nobel Prize candidate.

MCM

Hi Michael;

Governor Doyle may be on the verge of proving that you can tax something out of existence. More likely, Wisconsin smokers will find lower cost sources of cigarettes.

One thing that the folks in Madison have proven is: If you raise the tax on anything high enough, the law of Diminishing Returns kicks in.

[Gösta H. Lovgren-2]

Mel, I was a heavy (1-2 packs a day) to VERY heavy (2-5 a day) for over 30 years. Quitting is easy, hey, I quit hundreds of times during those years (never for more than 24 hours though)

Then HAD to stop while in the hospital for a couple weeks (oxygen tanks, etc.). After which was sent to a Rehab facility (4 or 5 weeks) where the intake nurse asked "Do you smoke?".

"Yes but I quit now."

Quite matter of factly she said "Oh, you'll start again. Everyone does." (Remember this was 1985/6 when smoking wasn't the hysterical public anathema it is now) And virtually everyone I was in there with who had smoked before (maybe 15-20 people) started again. Except me.

And here's how I did it - I just waited a minute. That's all. Just waited a minute. No matter how addicted someone is to cigarettes (and I have to say say it's pretty clear I was addicted), he can always wait a minute to light up.

When someone would light up and offer a cigarette in morning breaks, I'd say to myself "I can wait until the next break, or til lunch, or til the next break, or til after dinner or til ...". I just waited a minute.

If you have your first cigarette when you wake up, wait until after you have coffee. Next day wait until you are in the car. Or at the traffic light. Or until the break at work. Just wait a minute.

I'm still waiting a minute and it's been about 23 years. Got lucky with the first minute though. Those two weeks in the hospital probably cleaned up much/most/all of the physical nicotine addiction so that when I was finally able to light up (no oxygen tanks), at least the (worst of) physical side was taken care of.

I miss smoking like gangbusters and even today will sidle downwind of someone smoking to get a whiff (heaven). And if I thought I could keep it down to say a couple a day, or even half a pack, I'd light up in a minute, but I know there's no hope of that ... I think I'll wait a minute.

==================================================
"I think there is a world market
for maybe five computers."
Thomas Watson (1874-1956), Chairman of IBM, 1943
==================================================

One other thought on cigarettes (and I think about them quite often). I've been told that cigarettes are even more addictive than heroin. Don't know if that's true or not but I can testify they are plenty addictive.

[Michael Mattias]

>Just wait a minute.

Good advice.

That's very parallel to quiting drinking. You don't have to tell yourself "I shall not drink again, ever;", you just have tell yourself, "I shall not drink today."

Ye Olde One Day At A Time.

5,597 for me so far. My goal? 5,598.

MCM

[jcfuller]

May I assume Mel took out a second mortgage rather than quit?

James

[Mel Bishop]

Originally Posted by jcfuller

May I assume Mel took out a second mortgage rather than quit?

Not a snow balls chance. I got 2 1/2 years left on my mortgage and come hell or high water, it's gonna get PAID off!!!

[Marc Van Cauwenberghe]

Dear Mel,

Good on you.

Marc